Doug Mason

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Posts by Doug Mason

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  28

  Where did they understood the anointed ones would be before the "great crowd" "revelation"?

  by paradisebeauty in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  this is a question on old doctrine of jw's.

  before they came up with the "great crowd" "revelation", where did they preached that the anointed ones will be?

  because if they preached it will be in heaven, how did they understood that the prophecies about the earth will be fulfilled?

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  Doug Mason

  The WTS's history of the "Great Crowd", "Anointed", and so on is complex. I cover this in my Studies at:

  http://www.jwstudies.com/The_Great_Crowd_before_1935_and_since.pdf

  http://www.jwstudies.com/The_Watch_Tower_Society_Reveals_Itself.pdf

  The Studies are searchable, so look for terms such as Jonadabs, Great Crowd, etc.

  In 1931, Rutherford applied the term "Jehovah's Witnesses" exclusively to the 144,000 Anointed. It took some 15 years before the term was gradually extended to the Great Crowd.

  Up to say the 1930s, the term "Great Crowd" was said to refer to the lost. For example:

  The “great multitude” will not survive Armageddon, because they are not of the “church of the firstborn”. … God’s promise is to preserve a remnant, and not a vast multitude. The “great multitude” are appointed to die. The Scriptures also show that the Jonadab class will survive Armageddon.(The Watchtower and Herald of Christ’s Presence, March 15, 1934, page 92)

  Such changes should not come as a surprise, as most will remember the recent change in which the "Faithful and Discreet Slave Class" was amended from the 144,000 to the Governing Body.

  Doug
• 
  28

  Where did they understood the anointed ones would be before the "great crowd" "revelation"?

  by paradisebeauty in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  this is a question on old doctrine of jw's.

  before they came up with the "great crowd" "revelation", where did they preached that the anointed ones will be?

  because if they preached it will be in heaven, how did they understood that the prophecies about the earth will be fulfilled?

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  Doug Mason

  The Watchtower's history is complex, as I show in my Study:

  http://www.jwstudies.com/The_Watch_Tower_Society_Reveals_Itself.pdf

  The Study is searchable, so look for terms such as "Jonadabs", "Great Crowd", and so on.
  

  Terms experience several transitions, at times experiencing 180 degree change. For example, in 1931, Rutherford applied the term "Jehovah's Witnesses" exclusively to the Anointed. It took a further 15 years or so until the name was gradually extended to the "Great Crowd" (previously known as the "Jonadabs"). Also, in the WTS's earlier manifestations, the term Great Crowd was used to describe the "great unwashed".

  People here are very familiar with this phenomenon, when the Governing Body stood its "Faithful and Discreet Slave Class" on its head by changing its meaning from the "Anointed 144,000 on earth" to mean the "Governing Body".
  

  Doug
  
• 
  21

  A problem with the book of Daniel

  by wozza in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  left the wts some years ago, but just before i left we were studying the daniel book that they produced in the book study .. i noticed something wrong in the bible account of daniel and brought this up at the end of the study when the conductor asked if everyone understood that nights study,.

  i think i may have started a topic here some years ago about this event ,it was a time when i started to question the wts in my heart and mind.the scriptures are lengthy so i will just shorten things by describing the stories in daniel and how one point really got me thinking about things and perhaps made the brothers wierd out about me sand distance themselves ,here it is..........dan ch 1-4. daniels ( who came to be called belteshazzar)in babylon along with shadrach,meshach & abednego ,daniel,after praying with these 3, interprets and states what nebuchadnezzars dream is( we all know this ,the image with the head of gold body of iron and copper etc) and they are rewarded by being positions of authority.

  daniel made ruler of the province and chief prefect over babylons wise men ,the 3 were made overseers of the administation of the province ,all very important jobs ,.

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  Doug Mason

  Paul's ultimate destination was Spain (Romans 15:24, 28).
  
• 
  5

  "Scholastic Dishonesty of the Watchtower"

  by Doug Mason in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  for those of you who do not have a copy of michael van buskirk's 1976 study:.

  http://www.jwstudies.com/scholastic_dishonesty-_buskirk_-searchable-.pdf.

  doug.

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  Doug Mason

  Vidiot,

  From time to time, several of us have pointed to the misquotations, selective quotations, misrepresentations and such as in the area of neo-Babylonian chronology:

  http://www.jwstudies.com/Response_from_John_Steele.pdf

  http://www.jwstudies.com/The_June_2012_Awake_Citation_of_Ephraim_Stern.pdf

  http://www.jwstudies.com/JWN_thread_re_June_12_2012_Awake.pdf

  etc., etc.

  A very recent complaint was (again) made by George Howard on the WTS's use of his work to substantiate their (mis)use of "Jehovah" throughout their NT.

  http://www.jwstudies.com/Reply_to_M_P_by_Professor_Howard.pdf
  

  Doug
• 
  2

  latest on royal commission as of sept. 18?

  by lettersfromthevoid in

  1. watchtower
  2. child-abuse

  i've been reading the report by the rc.

  i don't see any mention of jws at all so far.

  other churches were mentioned though.

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  Doug Mason

  The Commission is very busy, covering numbers of institutions and bodies.They are currently investigating a prestigious public school and they will shortly be returning to its investigation into the Catholic Church (with a cardinal fronting the enquiry), which has been a primary focus.
  

  I have no idea when they will publish its report on the JWs, but you might need to be patient. They are putting out reports and recommendations, although one recent report discussed an enquiry that the Commission conducted 15 months ago.

  The Commission has been running for about 2 years, and the investigation into the JWs results from the actions of Steven Unthank (check for him online).

  Doug
  
• 
  21

  A problem with the book of Daniel

  by wozza in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  left the wts some years ago, but just before i left we were studying the daniel book that they produced in the book study .. i noticed something wrong in the bible account of daniel and brought this up at the end of the study when the conductor asked if everyone understood that nights study,.

  i think i may have started a topic here some years ago about this event ,it was a time when i started to question the wts in my heart and mind.the scriptures are lengthy so i will just shorten things by describing the stories in daniel and how one point really got me thinking about things and perhaps made the brothers wierd out about me sand distance themselves ,here it is..........dan ch 1-4. daniels ( who came to be called belteshazzar)in babylon along with shadrach,meshach & abednego ,daniel,after praying with these 3, interprets and states what nebuchadnezzars dream is( we all know this ,the image with the head of gold body of iron and copper etc) and they are rewarded by being positions of authority.

  daniel made ruler of the province and chief prefect over babylons wise men ,the 3 were made overseers of the administation of the province ,all very important jobs ,.

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  Doug Mason

  There are so many problems with Daniel.

  It is historically inaccurate, including the dating of Daniel's exile, Nebuchadnezzar's madness (confused with Nabonidus), wrong name of Babylon's last ruler and Persia's first ruler, etc., etc., etc.
  

  The LXX is so different to the MT. (The Christians preferred Theodotian's translation to the LXX. Theodotian's is closer to the MT.)
  

  The "furnace" and "lions' den" stories are so far fetched that one wonders if the ancients thought they were literal histories or whether they were parables teaching that God's people would survive despite their current problems (under Antiochus Epiphanes). (The stories of chapters 2 to 4 form an overall pattern, thus showing the moral being taught is that Yahweh is supreme, giving power to whoever it pleases. This was good news to the 2nd century readers.)
  

  The writings can only be understood in the context of the Maccabeans.

  When Jeremiah's prediction of Jewish restoration was obviously not coming to pass, the 2nd century writers changed the "70 years" to "7 times 70 years" to bring it down to their own times.

  Doug
  
• 
  5

  "Scholastic Dishonesty of the Watchtower"

  by Doug Mason in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  for those of you who do not have a copy of michael van buskirk's 1976 study:.

  http://www.jwstudies.com/scholastic_dishonesty-_buskirk_-searchable-.pdf.

  doug.

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• 

  Doug Mason

  For those of you who do not have a copy of Michael Van Buskirk's 1976 Study:

  http://www.jwstudies.com/Scholastic_Dishonesty-_Buskirk_-searchable-.pdf

  Doug
  
• 
  12

  PDF of Advice for Kingdom Publishers (1939)

  by MrMonroe in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  i'm hoping to obtain a copy of the 1939 booklet advice for kingdom publishers.

  it's a 16-page booklet that was written, i understand, to help us publishers as they embarked on the very vigorous witnessing campaigns that were largely aimed at provoking police and governments to take action against them.

  i'm particularly interested in what specific advice they were given about creating or avoiding situations likely to result in their arrest.

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  Doug Mason

  I do not know if this is of any use to you, as it is dated 1945:

  http://www.strictlygenteel.co.uk/booklets/orginst.html

  Doug
  
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  22

  Inspiration, inscripturation

  by Doug Mason in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  the apostle paul stated at 2 timothy 3:16: all scripture is inspired of god.

  the phrase inspired of god translates the compound greek word theopneustos, meaning, literally, god-breathed or breathed by god.

  this is the only occurrence of this greek term in the scriptures.

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  Doug Mason

  Village Idiot,

  I provided that quotation to show the explanation of "inspiration" as employed by theologians.

  The text of Bible has suffered more "corrections" and errors than there are words in the Bible. Over time, the text has been subjected to editors (redactors) who made accidental and deliberate changes, where human errors took place every time a scroll was copied (missing words, insertion of comments, etc., etc., etc.) Many textual critics have given up on the quest to determine the original "autographs".
  

  And there is no universally accepted canon.
  

  The Hebrew Scriptures are very much the product of the community exiled by the Babylonians and by those affected by it (Ezra, for example). In other words - religious/political propaganda. The Christian Scriptures are very much the product of a group whose allegiance was to Paul (did he invent Christianity?). They were in the minority for a long time, during which the Gnostics held sway over larger parts of the Christian community.
  

  To say that the Bible is inspired by God because the Bible says it is inspired by God is pure circular reasoning.

  To say that the Bible is human neither proves nor disproves whether there is a God (or Gods). People need to stop worshiping the Bible; Protestants complain that Catholics have idols, and then they turn around and worship a book.

  Doug
  
• 
  22

  Inspiration, inscripturation

  by Doug Mason in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  the apostle paul stated at 2 timothy 3:16: all scripture is inspired of god.

  the phrase inspired of god translates the compound greek word theopneustos, meaning, literally, god-breathed or breathed by god.

  this is the only occurrence of this greek term in the scriptures.

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  Doug Mason

  Richard,

  Although I included the WTS's statement that "Paul wrote 2 Timothy 3:16", by no means does that mean I agree with that sentiment.

  It is ironic that a statement should be held up to be true when the writer pretends to be Paul - and is hence dishonest.
  

  The Bible as such did not take form until centuries after that letter was written, so it cannot be referring to the Biblical canon or its contents.

  A canon needs a text to be accepted by the religious community as sacred, but a text can be considered to be sacred without the need for a canon. Hence Marcion accepted certain writings but that does not mean he had a canon.
  

  Doug